Authentification Hi, I have decided to update the forum website from phorum 3 to phorum 5. However, I had to hack the former in order to plug in my own authentification module. Apparently, I will have to do the same with phorum 5. I know that on the "modules" forum there is a thread about plugging in one's own authentification system. However, I am not satisfied with these solutions as they also imply that everything has to be duplicated. I am also not satistified by simply modifying the include/users.php as it implies that everything (including user/group privileges on forum itself) has to be handled by the external module. I eventually modified the users.php and include/db/mysql.php to fit my needs; however, this means also that I will have to do it again each time I upgrade phorum. What I would like is a plug-in mechanismn at a lower level, that is in include/db/mysql.php directly. The only assumption is that user_id (and maybe group_id) is handled by a custom module. For instance, (1) adding a filter in phorum_db_user_save that tells which fields are to be handled by phorum itself; then calling (if it exists) a custom save procedure that completes the save. Also, if the user does not exist in the phorum database this should be handled properly. (2) in phorum_db_user_get would be modified to call a custom function to complete the information of phorum tables. Here again, if the user is not found in the phorum database, it has to be handled properly (ie, default values) This mechanism can be reproduced for the groups. The advantages are: - no duplication of information - it is much easier to plug-in a custom authentification module as only 2/3 simple functions have to be implemented (much easier that modifying the users.php file at least) - upgrades do not break anything as default values are provided by these function if the field is not handled by the authentification module. Also, I think there should be some options in phorum that could switch on/off the login/register/modify profile (or modify their URLs). I would agree to do the modifications and then send a patch if you think this is a good idea. Benjamin https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,17836#msg-17836 Thu, 10 Sep 2026 14:45:47 -0500 Phorum 6.0.4 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,120566#msg-120566 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,120566#msg-120566 See the embed phorum thread

The fact that you're running an ASP site might be a show stopper for this though. The embed Phorum module is targeted at a PHP master system which includes the Phorum system.]]> Maurice Makaay Phorum Integration Mon, 26 Feb 2007 04:37:22 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,120565#msg-120565 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,120565#msg-120565 M@AATW Phorum Integration Mon, 26 Feb 2007 04:14:19 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53831#msg-53831 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53831#msg-53831
By having maurice on the development team, I believe the project will be done faster, and in a better way as well, compare with what we can come up with.

Btw Maurice, let me know if you need my help. I wouldn't mind scanning the files and update it, as long as you describe in detail of what I need to do. ;)

Feel free to holler me at wendy at djamoer dot net.
Thanks for your willingness to help us.]]> wendy Phorum Integration Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:15:42 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53828#msg-53828 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53828#msg-53828
A special template set.
-----------------------

Things like registration and user authentication are not available and the control center has some more logic in it.

A Phorum Module
---------------

- A Phorum module that disables certain functionality at the application level, so smart users can't still call auth/registration pages by self-crafted requests.

- The Phorum module also has a couple of data types defined, for which you can tell if that type should be handled by Phorum or by the master application. E.g., you could tell Phorum that the signature and privacy settings are provided by the master application and that group management and forum settings are still handled by Phorum. Changing these feature will have impact on the functions that are available on the control center.

- In the settings for the module, you can enter some URL's for redirecting when certain functions are accessed. This way you can for example redirect the user to your master application's login page instead of displaying Phorum's login page.

Library for the master application
----------------------------------

This library will contain functionality for synchronizing user data to the Phorum database and for setting up the environment so Phorum will see the logged in user too.


I'll post some software as soon as it reach the highly-unstable status ;-)]]> Maurice Makaay Phorum Integration Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:35:18 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53821#msg-53821 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53821#msg-53821
Slight sarcasim since I know it isn't a priority, but I was refering to this thread and the Mambo thread combined. Authentication integration in general. You seem to of worked on the theory of the process; maybe decided a general solution won't work? Maurice sounds like he is building something for his site that a few of us might reference.]]> kevwit Phorum Integration Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:03:06 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53818#msg-53818 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53818#msg-53818
I think a comprehensive module with would be helpful for many webmasters out there. I am well on the way to solving my integration.

Whatever the phorum dev team decides in the way of modules is fine with me. I am open to building one in the future, however my php skills aren't up to par yet.

Quote
mmakaay
I need it too myself and my plan is to make a nice php include file for easy syncing of external users with the Phorum database, and extend the software around my own user database with this. Next to that I will disable (through templates and a module) the functions that may not be used on Phorum (like signing up for an account).

Better ways to fully integrate an external user database into Phorum are always welcomed.
Very interested in what Maurice is coming up with along these lines.]]> kevwit Phorum Integration Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:33:27 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53816#msg-53816 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53816#msg-53816 DavidVB Phorum Integration Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:10:02 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53813#msg-53813 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53813#msg-53813
Quote
kevwit
I know you two are working feverishly on this. I am a php newbe (asp pro), but on the subject of a general integration module:

I assume that is a joke? We are not working on this.

Quote

I am invisioning a module that used session data to compare data between two systems. Since the session data transends all php systems you could effectively send phorum user data to the session, or visa-versa.

This assumes both applications use PHP sessions. I don't even have PHP sessions enabled on my server.]]> Brian Moon Phorum Integration Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:14:38 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53811#msg-53811 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53811#msg-53811
I know you two are working feverishly on this. I am a php newbe (asp pro), but on the subject of a general integration module:

I am invisioning a module that used session data to compare data between two systems. Since the session data transends all php systems you could effectively send phorum user data to the session, or visa-versa.

So the module would allow you to set phorum's username = some session variable set by the admin (ex. $_SESSION['user_name']), and thus allow seamless login to other systems. This may create too much server overhead, so clearing it after use might be a consideration?

Maybe the module could also have fuctions with customizable variables for inserting and deleting. The referenced data could be session variables, database fields, or cookie info. Obviously database would be the most complicated because of the different types, unless you could specify a connection string in the module.

I know you all are way ahead of me on this. Just wanted to put my vote in for a general system to help everyone. We built a custom forum and went away from phorum, but now we are moving back because of the many recent innovations. I am creating a bridge between phorum's database and our user table based on the Wordpress plugin referenced on this forum.]]> kevwit Phorum Integration Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:08:05 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53796#msg-53796 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53796#msg-53796 DavidVB Phorum Integration Tue, 31 Jan 2006 05:06:10 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53793#msg-53793 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53793#msg-53793 I'm planning to integrate this with MODx CMS, but I'm having problem with the user integration for now. I want MODx to be the parent auth, so syncronization for username and password would be enough for me, because the rest is basically an extra fields in phorum, isn't it?

Any reply will be awesome. Thanks guys]]> wendy Phorum Integration Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:39:21 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53736#msg-53736 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53736#msg-53736
Quote
chanh
I am thinking to make phorum as a component of Mambo so it can be installed into Mambo. It is like module in phorum. That is how our current Simpleboard works! It is a component of Mambo and installed as a component. It might requires a bit of work to make that happen.

Yeah, making Phorum a drop in module type of thing where the admin for Phorum is part of Mambo could be hard.

Quote
chanh
Mambo will be in [opensourcecms.com] and has its own database and phorum will have its own database and will be in [opensourcecms.com]

I don't think that is necassary. We just need to investigate the way Mambo works and how it embeds things.]]> Brian Moon Phorum Integration Sun, 29 Jan 2006 21:07:17 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53728#msg-53728 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53728#msg-53728
There are lot of Mambo sites that want to have a good lean, fast forum to replace Simpleboard and my thinking is if phorum can be a component then phorum will potentially gain lot of user through Mambo.

Most of Mambo users are not very technical minded so this would be a very good way for them to have exposure to phorum.

There are bridges to other forum for Mambo like SMF, phpBB, etc but people don't like it because it is too complicated for them to install the bridge, the forum on a separate database, folder, etc. Plus, it is too easyly break and something to go wrong!

Install separatedly means:

For example:

Mambo will be in [opensourcecms.com] and has its own database

and phorum will have its own database and will be in [opensourcecms.com]

or [forum.opensourcecms.com]

Is that what you have in mind?

If that is the case may be phorum have some kind of module that Mambo can call when a link is click to visit phorum and do the user sync at that time and auto login for the user.

How could that be done?

Thanks]]> Chanh Ong Phorum Integration Sun, 29 Jan 2006 11:59:20 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53726#msg-53726 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53726#msg-53726
Quote
chanh
But how is that auto login happen if the two application are install separately?

I am a little confused since my current situation is the Simpleboard is installed as a component of Mambo so it is part of the main CMS therefore the login in available to Simpleboard and the admin is also part of the Mambo backend.

I am not sure what you mean "installed separately". Do you mean on different servers? As long as the applications are on the same server, you can include code between the two.

You are talking about embedding an application in another. That is s bit different. That would make the forum application 100% dependent on the CMS. When that happens, you end up with what you have now, a limited application that does not do what you need.]]> Brian Moon Phorum Integration Sun, 29 Jan 2006 11:40:32 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53720#msg-53720 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53720#msg-53720 . There will be two separate install one for the CMS and one for phorum
. There will be a hack or module in phorum to make a call to a CMS to do a auto login in phorum.

But how is that auto login happen if the two application are install separately?

I am a little confused since my current situation is the Simpleboard is installed as a component of Mambo so it is part of the main CMS therefore the login in available to Simpleboard and the admin is also part of the Mambo backend.

Would you expand on your idea a little bit?

Thanks]]> Chanh Ong Phorum Integration Sun, 29 Jan 2006 08:37:59 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53716#msg-53716 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53716#msg-53716
Quote
chanh
PS: I take a look at the Wordpress integration at the blog site and it is just a hack to extract the information from the cookie to do the autologin to phorum. I like the sounding of your idea better.

Heh, that is my idea. There is not much more you can do really. Ideally, you would have a function in the parent application to call rather than running sql queries.

There is no magic bullet to make two separate applications work as one. Code must be written in Phorum to make it aware of the other application.]]> Brian Moon Phorum Integration Sun, 29 Jan 2006 01:52:24 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53715#msg-53715 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53715#msg-53715
Quote
brianlmoon
So, I see two different ideas here. Mine is transparent integration with other apps. I don't see why you have to log in twice if the apps are on the same web site.

I would like to learn more about your idea on this "transparent integration" with other apps.

How is it be done?
I would love to use this for my sites!

PS: I take a look at the Wordpress integration at the blog site and it is just a hack to extract the information from the cookie to do the autologin to phorum. I like the sounding of your idea better.

Thanks]]> Chanh Ong Phorum Integration Sun, 29 Jan 2006 01:06:58 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53713#msg-53713 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53713#msg-53713
One is to be able to integrate into our site or any site that want to use phorum. In our case would be Mambo but it can be MODx or anything else. This idea is to help me and anyone that want to integrate phorum into their web site. I also need to have a way to migrate all posts and subforum into phorum.

How big of a project is the above wishes?

The second is using phorum as the only application for the site and will use phorum as the frontend to allow user to login to phorum login form and phorum will authenticate user credential to external source whether it is POP3, LDAP or whatever else that might be. This idea is for phorum extensability!

You idea on using the module for this is perfect!

Thanks]]> Chanh Ong Phorum Integration Sat, 28 Jan 2006 17:56:19 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53712#msg-53712 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53712#msg-53712
Your idea is external authentication where users would still have to log in to the Phorum, but would be authenticated against some external system, most likely using a module.

Frankly, the latter is much simpler. A single hook in include/user.php could handle that.

How does this sound for a hook:

receives the user and password typed into the login form.
the module would do whatever it needed to check the user, attempt to retrieve their user_id from the Phorum system using phorum_user_check_field(). If they don't exist, add them via phorum_user_add(). In the end, return the user_id of the user in the Phorum system.

Is that too complicated for this module? I think it needs to be up to the module to know how to identify the user. could be username, email, or the external system may know the user_id.]]> Brian Moon Phorum Integration Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:44:55 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53711#msg-53711 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53711#msg-53711
Thanks]]> Chanh Ong Phorum Integration Sat, 28 Jan 2006 12:29:19 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53710#msg-53710 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53710#msg-53710 Maurice Makaay Phorum Integration Sat, 28 Jan 2006 12:20:49 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53708#msg-53708 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53708#msg-53708
POP3 and LDAP will be great for enterprise site and application and exteranl CMS or other package will be great for public site.

If phorum has this feature this will open the flood gate for phorum to be adopt by many people since there is virtually no forum package out there that support this feature. Forum is a must to have but also it needs to be flexible to be able to integrate well with other apps.

PS: I must add that phorum is the first developers I encounter that are open minded to make your application to be integrated well with other apps which I and many people like me are appreciate.]]> Chanh Ong Phorum Integration Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:03:10 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53706#msg-53706 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53706#msg-53706
Obviously everyone will trust the intranet site and enter their email account and password. That is what I use to authenticate my user in my intranet site for my web application. I can not afford to maintain several teen thousands of users.]]> Chanh Ong Phorum Integration Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:33:41 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53704#msg-53704 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53704#msg-53704
The only sane setup for this is therefore: Phorum checks credentails agains a pre-configured POP3-server, which is under your control. Of course you could setup this system to pre-configure pop3.gmail.com as the POP3 server to use for checking. In that case, I hope that the forum users are security minded enough to know that they shouldn't give up their secret credentials to a non-related website.]]> Maurice Makaay Phorum Integration Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:14:04 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53703#msg-53703 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53703#msg-53703
For example let say you want anybody with Gmail account can use your forum then you will create a authencation call to pop3.gmail.com to authenticate the user when the user type in johndoe@gmail.com in the login box and their password in the password box then phorum will make a call to pop3.gmail.com to get the status whether this user with this password is valid if yes then phorum will check against phorum table to see if this user already there if not add this user and somehow keep track of the fact that he is login using gmail credential so that next time he login again phorum don't have to create again but just go to pop3.gmail.com to get his cridential.

I hope that explain this pop3 a little.

Thanks]]> Chanh Ong Phorum Integration Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:57:53 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53702#msg-53702 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53702#msg-53702 Maurice Makaay Phorum Integration Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:18:42 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53701#msg-53701 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53701#msg-53701
you want to use a public email-adress as a "secret" PW ?
So anybody that knows the email-adress can login as that user?

Or does this concept require a new and confidential email-account being set up which will never be used to send/recieve email?]]> pat Phorum Integration Sat, 28 Jan 2006 07:32:12 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53697#msg-53697 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53697#msg-53697
Mambo has a component solution where a complete application run within Mambo. So if Phorum can be setup to take the user login and password to automatically add to Phorum and some how keep them in sync then that should be all we need.

The way Simpleboard work is just like that! When a user access the forum it will check its table to see if the user is in the table if not it will create the user with from the Mambo table and that's it. And since Simpleboard and any application run within Mambo as a component then the permission be will inherit for that purpose.

We also need to have a way to import all posts from Simpleboard into phorum to preserve all of our post.

I will be happy to work closely with you to collaborate on this effort. Please let me know what can I do to help you and provide you the information you on this integration. Thanks

If you can make the integration with Mambo work the same way like Wordpress which allow the user login to Mambo once and they don't have to login to phorum that is ideal!

On the POP3 and LDAP authentication that is exactly what I meant is to get the login and password using phorum login and past that information to the POP3 or LDAP server to get a good or fail return. If the login is good then create the user in phorum with that information and some how indicated that this user is authenticate via POP3 or LDAP then the next time this user login again using this loginid phorum will use the same method to authenticate this user. So for example if I use my pop3 account to login to phorum then phorum will record a "pop3" or something to indicated that I am login using pop3 so phorum don't have to know my password just the fact that phorum get a success login from pop3 server. In this case my login would be my pop3 email address.

In the case of LDAP it would be very similar concept but the actual call to the server to get authenticate might be a little different.

In my mind, with external authentication you don't need to know their profile all you care is their login and whether they are authenticated on that system. Phorum should still keep a profile about this user local in Phorum to grant to denied access to forums and posts.]]> Chanh Ong Phorum Integration Fri, 27 Jan 2006 23:47:31 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53688#msg-53688 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53688#msg-53688 authentication and the underlying user system. Do you simply want to check the user name and password against POP or LDAP? Or are you wanting the user profile to come from there?

Adding hooks to allow simple authentication checking would not be that hard. If the user authenticates, but does not exist in the Phorum database, they can just be created with the data returned from LDAP.

FWIW, I sent an email to many open source PHP applications about this type of thing. I found mixed feelings from different groups. The phpBB guys seemed very interested in some sort of standard PHP user information exchange system. Others felt they should just extend their system and everything else should coform to their way. That causes a problem though.

For me, the best system would require the user to login just once. The Wordpress integration thread in this forum is a good example of how I think this should work. The user only logs in to Wordpress. The Phorum side is handled via hooks and modules.

My hope is/was that there could be a standard for all this. Each application could export an api (class, functions whatever) that would simply have to be registered with the master application in a setup the master could push changes to the lower applications and and the lower applications could retreive and authenticate against the master. I know you end up with duplicated data. But, what is the better solution? Each application needs its own settings/info about a user.

BTW, thanks for all the demos you put up on your site. If you want to run Phorum, we can help you make a Mambo integration solution in IRC. See the support page. Just look at the Wordpress solution. It would not be much harder than that assuming Mambo has the same type of hooks.]]> Brian Moon Phorum Integration Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:10:39 -0600 https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53682#msg-53682 Re: Authentification https://www.phorum.org/support/read.php?28,17836,53682#msg-53682
This is very popular and needed feature for either Forum or a CMS to make it extensible. I am running a web site call [opensourcecms.com] and I see many posts asking for this exact thing.

I am currently running Mambo with Simpleboard and is very well integrated but I would like to find a good Forum to convert from Simpleboard and Phorum is a very viable choice if it has a good authenticate module to allow me to integrate with Mambo. I am also interested on a sample module to import forum post into Phorum. Is there something like that in Phorum that I can take a look?

One other very popular feature is to be able to use POP3 or LDAP as the external authentication so let say if I want to give anyone from this particular domain to have access to my forum then they just login using their pop3 or ldap login id and that is. No need to register or create a new account in Phorum.

So in summary external authentication for POP3, LDAP, or other CMS would be a great and wanted feature!

Thanks]]> Chanh Ong Phorum Integration Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:37:26 -0600