Threaded View

I realized that Threaded view... sort of sucks. Will it be improved? I like the threaded views of Phorum 3, yet I like all the new features that Phorum 5 includes. Will there be more improvements? I hate that they're modifying the phorum to be more like phpBB it's fine as it is.

not sure if I follow you ... you hate the new features as they make phorum be more like phpBB but you want the new features?
doesn't make sense to me.
you can change the templates to all you like, also the threaded view can be change through the templates.

However i didn´t find an opportunity do view the Forums in flat mode and the threads in threaded mode. This would be my vafourite views.
The threaded view of a whole forum might become to long for conveniant work with the forum, so i would not use it and would have to show the threads in flat view as well.

For discussion on an option to allow flat-view for message lists and threaded-view for individual threads please read:

[phorum.org]

and also:

[phorum.org]

A quick summary (but read the above!) - Thomas and Brian don't want Phorum 5 to work in "mixed" mode like Phorum 3. One reason given is that it will break the "Next" and "Previous" message links. Other reasons appear to be that they personally don't like this mix of views (but I may be wrong about that)

Myself and a number of other Phorum 3 users do want it. Personally I wouldn't even mind if the "Next Message" link were removed when in threaded mode.

Because the Phorum 5 design does not allow the old mixed view, I am still hacking and using Phorum 3 on my sites (I really like threaded mode)

At some point I hope that either Phorum 5 officially builds support in for mixed view mode (which seems unlikely) or I will have time to hack this in myself once it goes into Beta.

Finally (and just to reiterate a point ;-) ) - Phorum vs phpBB comparisons are often made and we Phorum users often say we like the fact that Phorum is not a phpBB clone. Phorum 5, in my opinion, will be seen as a phpBB clone because the threaded view is simply not going to be popular in its present state. All my experience tells me that most users will *not* want to browse the message list in threaded mode, so they will choose flat for everything.

I still think Phorum 5 is looking very nice by the way!

Regards,

/\dam

Additional problems: float-to-top is disabled in threaded mode ... so switching the view is even worse then.

>Additional problems: float-to-top is disabled
>in threaded mode ... so switching the view is
>even worse then.

See, this is a good example where I (and I think others) get confused.

Are you talking about threaded mode in listview or threadview?

All I and others are asking for is an option for:
a) the listview to be kept flat so float-to-top works as normal.
b) the single-thread-view to be shown threaded, at which point there is no float-to-top to worry about.

*** I am calling the above view "mixed-threaded" ***

My understanding is:

-Phorum 5 already allows flat list view with float-to-top (list.php )
-Phorum 5 already allows threaded single-thread view (read.php)
-Phorum 5 allows users to switch between the two views above but it takes about 6 or 7 mouse clicks which is so time consuming that nobody bothers to change.

What Phorum 5 *doesn't* allow is for users to have flatview+float-to-top enabled as their default list view, and threaded view for their default read.php view.

Now, the "Next" and "Previous" message links may need to be disabled in read.php if we are in mixed-threaded view - but that would be fine, a lot of us wouldn't care about that.

Hopefully this makes sense ;-)

/\dam

Quote

Now, the "Next" and "Previous" message links may need to be disabled in read.php if we are in mixed-threaded view - but that would be fine, a lot of us wouldn't care about that.

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see, thats the point where I see the problem, a lot of people would complain about this and would get confused about the missing links there.

ts77 Wrote:
------------------------------------------------
> see, thats the point where I see the problem, a
> lot of people would complain about this and would
> get confused about the missing links there.

OK, we appear to have reached a point where the design has two choices:

Choice 1: Leave Phorum 5 with no facility for mixed threaded mode, which means that any Phorum 3 users who used this view will have to change the way they use Phorum.
- Personal view #1: threaded view will stop being used by a *lot* of users as a result. There is very little point in having a threaded forum without this mixed-view mode.
- Personal view #2: Some Phorum 3 administrators will not upgrade to Phorum 5 if this view is missing
-----------------
Choice 2: Add mixed threading mode as a view option in the users' profiles. This will retain compatibility with Phorum 3. Drawback - the "next" and "previous" links in the Read.php view will disappear.
- Personal View #3: many people won't care, a lot of people don't use these links anyway, they use the tree view at the bottom of read.php or go back to the flat message list in oder to navigate to a new thread.
- Personal View #4: Someone will work out a way to reinstate the "Next" and "Previous" message links anyway, even if they only work within that thread (which would be perfectly fine)

Now, I think we agree that Choices 1 & 2 would appear to be fact. My personal views are of course subjective but I would ask that you consider that a lot of the Phorum userbase may agree with me. Can we put this to a vote and publicise it on the front page? In the threads I link to above it is not just me that is disappointed that Phorum 5, in this one key area, is worse than Phorum 3 (in our perception).

This isn't about trying to prove that anyone is wrong or right. It is about our shared hope that Phorum will be the best forum script that it can be. I sincerely believe that by implementing the mixed-view mode that we have been asking for then Phorum will be a superior product.

Other Phorum users - if you have an opinion on this please reply here so that we have more than a handful of people debating.

Best Regards,

/\dam

This is pretty disappointing. I was really looking forward to Phorum 5 too.

The setup that I have uses the "mixed-mode" that people are talking about here, at least amongst the vast majority of my users. We like having a threaded view of things, especially when a conversation branches into all kinds of different subjects (which can happen quite easily). A flat view isn't good for following a conversation like that, the different topics all run together and its impossible to follow.

That being said, the same people also use a flat view for the threadlist (list.php). The reason is simple: the threaded view gets too big to be useful. If you have a thread with 100 replies, list.php will show *one* thread in threaded mode.

I've seen what happens in that case, a thread that existed two days ago gets pushed off the screen by the 100 post thread, so someone who didn't see the old one creates a new one. This isn't a problem with mixed-mode, they can see the old thread.

So far as I'm concerned this is the single best feature in Phorum, and the main reason why I use it over other message boards.

Maybe its just me, but removing your best feature seems awfully counter-productive.

Check out the current CVS-version.
Its kind of implemented there.
I see still some problems with the "next thread"-links if the read-view is flat and the list-view is threaded.

Also I may have missed some threaded-entries somewhere, will need to check this later.

Looks great so far, thanks. :)

ts77 Wrote:
----------------------------------------------------
> I see still some problems with the "next
> thread"-links if the read-view is flat and the
> list-view is threaded.

Although you do realise we were asking for the readview (read.php) to be threaded and the list view (list.php) to be flat?

I can't know for certain - but I suspect it is unusual for anyone to want the view you have described above.

In the userprofile, if you offer:
- Flat (read.php flat, list.php flat)
- Mixed-Threaded (read.php threaded, list.php flat)
- Threaded (read.php threaded, list.php threaded)

...I think most people would be very happy.

Tridus's point about posts being pushed off the list view is a good one. I personally don't know anybody who prefers list.php to be in threaded mode, it just isn't a sensible view (float to top doesn't work, it is difficult to see many topics etc)

Reasons for preferring read.php in threaded mode are for me, three-fold.
1) Regular visitors to the forum will read updates to the same thread several times per day - they will only be interested in seeing the new posts, therefore the threaded view in read.php allows them to quickly see what has been added.
2) In cases where users don't bother to quote, threaded view shows the context of the discussion in an extremely easy to understand way.
3) From a webadmin point of view, bandwidth usage is more efficient when regular visitors are only loading a few dozen posts per day rather than a few hundred.

/\dam

The two pages (read and list) had independant options in the CVS version I tried, so you should be able to set it to any of the combinations.

thanks Tridus, thats exactly the way its done.
sheik, its done like in phorum3, list and read have now separated settings for their view. thats the most flexible.

Tridus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
[...]
> So far as I'm concerned this is the single best
> feature in Phorum, and the main reason why I use
> it over other message boards.
>
> Maybe its just me, but removing your best feature
> seems awfully counter-productive.

FYI: I have the same feeling here...

> FYI: I have the same feeling here...

And, we have added the feature back in CVS. We are open to our users.

ts77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> . . . if the read-view is flat and the
> list-view is threaded.
>

???

I thought, we were talking about a flat list-view (or topics-view) and a threaded read-view (or thread-view).

The way its setup now, you can do both.

Posted by: brianlmoon (IP Logged)
----
>> FYI: I have the same feeling here...

> And, we have added the feature back in CVS. We are open to our users.

FYI: This makes me really happy :D. Great work!

Yep, thanks very much. Guess you guys got tired of hearing us bitch about it, huh? =]

hell yeah! ;) plus I alread did for a client that is using Phorum 5.

Really? Why didn't we take your implementation then before I rewrote that thing. Maybe you could take a look at it ... there are still some glitches like I told above.

Well, I wrote an entire Module for his site to pull data in from his user tables. Quite a handy way to do it really. I need to publish a doc on it. His users have their own Forum options page that is stored separate from Phorum data.