Phorum and CakePHP ?

Re: Phorum and CakePHP ?

Maurice Makaay — Sat, 23 Jul 2011 12:33:47 -0400

The main thing to do for you now, seems to get a grip on the various application architectures that are possible in the web environment. Each of them has different possibilities for integration.

Iframes is one of the worst "integration" options. Iframes have a fixed width + height, while most applications produce output pages of various sizes. When hosting the main site + inframe application on the same domain, there are hacky options to dynamically scale the iframe to match the size that the content needs. That is terribly hacky though and not an option when hosting on different domains.

Re: Phorum and CakePHP ?

salmobytes — Sat, 23 Jul 2011 12:23:45 -0400

Thank you. I will digest this for a while.

I looked at the "embed" module for the "Vanilla" forum. The Vanilla embed plugin exists as one line of javascript that dynamically inserts an iframe into the current page. I could do that with Phorum now. And I do prefer Phorum to Vanilla for a number of reasons.

I wanted to avoid iframes for SEO reasons. I might have to look at what Drupal does (their forum is a plugin...that I assume is not an iframe).
I need to shut up and think for a while. Thank you.

Re: Phorum and CakePHP ?

Maurice Makaay — Sat, 23 Jul 2011 11:59:30 -0400

When writing a fully javascripted GUI, it can most certainly be pushed in a

. Javascript GUI's modify the DOM tree continuously and the

is a container that can be used as the playground for it.

For the javascript code to work, you'd still have to load CSS and core JavaScript code (in your case, the GWT framework). This is part of bootstrapping your application. This bootstrapping takes place in the section of the HTML output. JavaScript code could be read from somewhere inside the body, but CSS code must be added to the section (although adding it to the body works for most browsers too, it is not according to standards and upsets our standards-aware users).

Loading stylesheets on the fly using javascript is possible too. They can be pushed in the dynamically. When writing a javacript application, this is not a problem. The user needs to use a javascript browser to use the application at all. However, in the case of Phorum you are looking at a totally different kind of application. It generates HTML code that is pushed to the browser. No javascript required. The CSS code is put in the by generating the required HTML code for that. JavaScript is only used for enhancing the interface and not as a core technology requirement.

Phorum also figures all of this out, before sending the head. What you describe for GET and POST calls, is exactly what Phorum does.

Re: Phorum and CakePHP ?

salmobytes — Sat, 23 Jul 2011 09:09:41 -0400

I'll have to dig into the code. I understand phorum was written in a way that makes use of important information at the head stage. Bear with me. I'm just trying to understand.

I can't for the life of me see why this would be required in the general case, not if you were redesigning from scratch. I'm not asking you to do that. I'm just curious. I wrote a forum from scratch myself and used it for five years or more before I wrote a convert-to-phorum.php script.

Everything I did then was GET or POST parameters, sent from standard URLs or (in a few cases) from Javascript. But my codes always figured out what to do before writing any head information. OK. I'm just ignorant. I will start diving into the low-level codes to see. There must be something basic going on here I don't know about yet.

I spent a year writing a complex GUI with Google's GWT libraries too at one point. That was a highly complex front end to an XML database (Exist and/or SleepyCat) that did all sorts of interactive branching. And everything we did could have been stuffed into a div, rather than representing itself as a complete page.

Re: Phorum and CakePHP ?

salmobytes — Sat, 23 Jul 2011 09:09:26 -0400

I'll have to dig into the code. I understand phorum was written in a way that makes use of important information at the head stage. Bear with me. I'm just trying to understand.

I can't for the life of me see why this would be required in the general case, not if you were redesigning from scratch. I'm not asking you to do that. I'm just curious. I wrote a forum from scratch myself and used it for five years or more before I wrote a convert-to-phorum.php script.

Everything I did then was GET or POST parameters, sent from standard URLs or (in a few cases) from Javascript. But my codes always figured out what to do before writing any head information. OK. I'm just ignorant. I will start diving into the low-level codes to see. There must be something basic going on here I don't know about yet.

I spent a year writing a complex GUI with Google's GWT libraries too at one point (Java that compiles into javascript). That was a highly complex front end to an XML database (Exist and/or SleepyCat) that did all sorts of interactive branching. And everything we did could have been stuffed into a div, rather than representing itself as a complete page.

Re: Phorum and CakePHP ?

Maurice Makaay — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 06:11:07 -0400

The only way that I see to make it work as a single drop-in div, is when the full interface is built as a javascript widget. From javascript, one can dynamically add stuff to the header and the interface could be driven dynamically inside a div.

There's also the issue that you have to take care of generating working URLs from Phorum. The default URLs would not work when Phorum is put in a CMS page. Work has to be done to make sure that Phorum generates URLs that are processed correctly by the CMS, while keeping the parameter transport working. Phorum can do this, but is definitely is not compatible with a div drop in widget.

Maybe one day, we'll have a fully widget-driven javascript based UI for Phorum (it's still one of the fun projects on my personal list), but I can assure you that this would be a big project on its own and not a tiny wrapper for Phorum.

Re: Phorum and CakePHP ?

DavidVonB — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 11:37:16 -0400

The problem with "just dropping it in a div" is that by the time you get to a div, you are in the body of the page (and you can't add things that belong in the page's head section). Phorum needs to add some things to the head section of a page (the redirects, css, scripts, rss feeds). Some CMS systems do allow you to add things to the head section of a page, but there really isn't a universal way of doing this and you might also need a way to access some phorum database values in the head sections (you might also be able to use output buffering if the CMS would support that).

Re: Phorum and CakePHP ?

salmobytes — Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:35:23 -0400

Are these "header redirects" limited to jumping off to admin pages?
In that case perhaps it's not an issue. Admin pages are hidden from the user anyway. Admin pages as separate pages are fine.

Or is each view a separate redirect? ....phorum list, message list, message view, etc?

Even then it wouldn't take much--by the enclosing CMS, to handle those redirects--iff they could be recognized as specific to Phorum, then a plugin wrapper could handle the display swaps????? If so the rest would be trivial editing to the template.

Re: Phorum and CakePHP ?

Thomas Seifert — Wed, 13 Jul 2011 10:47:38 -0400

Sure and still, time is limited and we need to get some food to live from.

Re: Phorum and CakePHP ?

salmobytes — Wed, 13 Jul 2011 10:38:12 -0400

Quote
Thomas Seifert
We have no current plans to write the embed_phorum module again.

It takes a lot of time as its not a question of just "updating" but needing a full rewrite from scratch and there is no current need for any of the developers for such a module.
Maurice said he might do it anyway if he got time to do it but he's quite busy for the time being so I wouldn't bet on it.

This is a shame from my perspective (and others too it seems) because in all other respects I do prefer Phorum to all others I've tried. But this does mean I'll be experimenting with other forums now. I've done the message migration stuff several times now, to and from phorum. That's not the hard part. I'm not personally interested in Cake. What would really be useful is a phorum that could be plugged into any arbitrary CMS. That's the system that will ultimately win the popularity contest. Forums as a separate page are functionally obsolete in the current context.

Bear with me if I'm being ignorant or stupid here (I'm sure I am). I don't fully understand the aforementioned You can't do redirection or any header stuff when loaded "into a div" aka when you just include it issue. How many of these header redirections does Phorum do? Couldn't this be done by stripping out the head and body *.tpl stuff from the template, and then leave it up to the local CMS programmer to rewrite header redirection handling?

Re: Phorum and CakePHP ?

Thomas Seifert — Fri, 08 Jul 2011 04:30:55 -0400

We have no current plans to write the embed_phorum module again.

It takes a lot of time as its not a question of just "updating" but needing a full rewrite from scratch and there is no current need for any of the developers for such a module.
Maurice said he might do it anyway if he got time to do it but he's quite busy for the time being so I wouldn't bet on it.

Re: Phorum and CakePHP ?

rheo — Wed, 06 Jul 2011 03:34:19 -0400

thanks for the responses.

having the ability to embed phorum easily really is an a huge asset as a developer.

i think the widgetized version would allow you to pass phorum parameters in the code of the master program.

Re: Phorum and CakePHP ?

rheo — Wed, 06 Jul 2011 03:20:28 -0400

wouldn't the widget mode just be alot like the embed phorum module?

any feelings on if that will be updated to work with the current version of phorum anytime soon?

Re: Phorum and CakePHP ?

Thomas Seifert — Wed, 29 Jun 2011 16:51:08 -0400

"Widgets" can be everything.
From a javascript widget which is loaded directly into the page or any other integration way.
You can't do redirection or any header stuff when loaded "into a div" aka when you just include it. Thats why the portable code needs you to use output buffering so that header redirections are sent before any output.

Thats why I was asking what the "convenient widget mode" is like. How thats implemented, how it works.

Re: Phorum and CakePHP ?

salmobytes — Wed, 29 Jun 2011 16:18:47 -0400

Well it's mostly the enclosing CMS, no?

If the CMS supports a plugin API you put phorum-as-a-widget in the CMS's plugins directory.
Phorum does what it always does, sans DOCTYPE head and body. And what does spit out
of phorum becomes a DIV contents, as handled by the CMS.

Re: Phorum and CakePHP ?

Thomas Seifert — Wed, 29 Jun 2011 15:50:54 -0400

How does that "Widget Mode" work in other forums?

Re: Phorum and CakePHP ?

salmobytes — Wed, 29 Jun 2011 15:48:34 -0400

what features?

Everything, but strip off DOCTYPE html and body tags. I tried fiddling with the phorum tpl files once, in order to do just that. But couldn't get phorum to work reliably as a widget.

I've been looking at the Vanilla forum which has a convenient widget mode....where that forum can become the contents of a DIV. Unfortunately Vanilla does not support threading. I tried the SMF forum a while back, because they claim an "import from phorum" module plus threading plus a widget mode. But the SMF forum turns out to be a security disaster. Phorum is the best forum in all respects except one: ...no embeddable widget mode.

Re: Phorum and CakePHP ?

Thomas Seifert — Tue, 24 May 2011 02:31:34 -0400

IMO the question would be, what features exactly you want to "integrate" with CakePHP.

Phorum and CakePHP ?

rheo — Mon, 23 May 2011 13:20:27 -0400

I've been considering porting my custom CMS to CakePHP framework for awhile now.

I haven't got as far as figuring out how I would get Phorum to work with the it.. Currently I am using the Embed Phorum module with 5.1.

Does anyone have some theoretical insight on how one would get CakePHP working with a non-cake app like Phorum?